Wings too strong against melees

[AztecGoldHero]

@nikos32
warrior and sin damage is super low because of the wings it gives against melees:

1. 80-120 normal defense
2. 6-8 anti defense
3. 15-25 poision ressistance

Against mages:

1. 15-25 Flame / Lightning Ressistance
   
   Please buff melee damages because melee is kinda unplayable against mages and i think every melee player agrees with me especially after the mage buffs from last patches.

 

Also you should remove dagger defense helmets because rogues have the biggest trouble in the server at the moment.

Also because of the Wings and Unholy Aegis , Aegis shields.

Aegis 25 DD, Dagger helmet 20 DD, Iron Set 20DD, Wing Of War / Phoenix Wing 8DD.

makes it 73DD. A rogue spike will hit 10% of a mage staff.

Edited October 9, 2023 by AztecGoldHero

[Raspberry]

I do not want to start a new topic so i will use this instead. It's kinda related.

We tested mage damages against sins damages. Here the results;

Mage items (Paper, Full MP, Flame);
-Iron Belt
-Warrior Pendant
-Dual LKP
-Dual BDW Ring Flame (default not mage)
-Legendary Staff (Fire) +6
-Beginner Gear
-Wing of War

Sin items (255 Dex);
-Iron Neck
-Elf Belt +1
-Dual BDW Ring Flame
-Howling Rooster +1 & +0
-Dual SN +8
-2x Red Chitin +7, 2x Shell +8, 1x Valkyrie +7
-Wing of War

w/o 62 master skills

mage making 700-750 per attack (72 staff skill + elemental damage)

sin making 650 average per attack on 10 skills w/o R (spike + thrust + pierce + bloody beast + cut + jab + stab x2 + basic skill x2)
I think i should add this, spike's outcome damage is around 1400-1200, i hit him 5 times for each skill and then sum up all damages then diveded by 5.

Sin won all fights but please consider the item difference. Most mages have +5,5k health and almost 1k armor. While sins have same hp and armor and less damage.
Sin class has no specific perk for now on the server.

[LEJ - Halil]

Totally agree, i was going to open a topic about it but thank god aztek did.

The rogue class is really beaten up my every change in this server. Everything works against us. For example, our stealth is useless when we alrdy killed someone. As u know 95% of the server is mage now, so if u kill one of them our stealth is useless for next 5 minutes cuz he will see a mark on our head.

Every class has 72 skill but rogue doesnt have this. Maybe it would be a nice addition since our class is totally broken ( in a negative way ) already.

Can u imagine being full item on a rogue ( which is the most expensive to get full gear with ) , and that u cant even solo kill a mage staffing u for 1000 dmg.

Rogues need some kind of buff if u ask me, perhaps do something about DD or enable our 72 skill or up the damage a little. I donno, but something has to be done

[nikos32]

8 hours ago, LEJ - Halil said:

Every class has 72 skill but rogue doesnt have this. Maybe it would be a nice addition since our class is totally broken ( in a negative way ) already.

Can u imagine being full item on a rogue ( which is the most expensive to get full gear with ) , and that u cant even solo kill a mage staffing u for 1000 dmg.

or we could get rid of the lvl 72 staff skill 

how could the level 72 sin skill (beast hiding, right?) help, though? because I think that the only skill that could kind of balance sins in PvP is the CP skill. but I feel like classes will be completely broken then. like, from what I'm aware of based on the feedback, the 1vs1 matches are still balanced, but PvP is not due to the high defense armors people use. I think nerfing the armors, as it was initially suggested, is the right way to do it.

[Daggeron]

or just release %30 attack power scroll since main problem is the psycal damage output. that will help melees do more damage againts high armor and antidefs

[LEJ - Halil]

3 hours ago, nikos32 said:

or we could get rid of the lvl 72 staff skill 

how could the level 72 sin skill (beast hiding, right?) help, though? because I think that the only skill that could kind of balance sins in PvP is the CP skill. but I feel like classes will be completely broken then. like, from what I'm aware of based on the feedback, the 1vs1 matches are still balanced, but PvP is not due to the high defense armors people use. I think nerfing the armors, as it was initially suggested, is the right way to do it.

Nah really my point is not about other classes but purely for my poor sin class. the lvl 72 skill for example would be amazing to use against mages. Would be fun too, making them blind for 2 seconds.. Why not ?  I kinda like that idea  

[LEJ - Halil]

Also i forgot to add, its not beast hiding but its the Blinding skill. A skill with long cooldown and does not deal that much damage. It just blinds the opponent for 2/3 seconds.

I feel that since the assasin class is pretty much the worst class in this game, it would be a nice addition in my opinion. 

[Raspberry]

6 hours ago, nikos32 said:

or we could get rid of the lvl 72 staff skill 

how could the level 72 sin skill (beast hiding, right?) help, though? because I think that the only skill that could kind of balance sins in PvP is the CP skill. but I feel like classes will be completely broken then. like, from what I'm aware of based on the feedback, the 1vs1 matches are still balanced, but PvP is not due to the high defense armors people use. I think nerfing the armors, as it was initially suggested, is the right way to do it.

there is already too much macro sin players. If you check sometimes, you can not believe how they use minor so CP makes them god but making physical damage a bit boosted would solve the problem i guess.

I have to add this; 72 skill is not a solution, blindness for 2 seconds for 1 mage or 1 warrior or priest whatever will not change a thing. You can use 72 for, I dont know, on every 20 seconds ? This does not change a thing against a mage party. Maybe with a perfect timing you can be more advantageous against melee.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Raspberry

[RevienT4CulOs]

Jajaja, Raspberry sins are not macro, as I told you a long time ago, you will always live deceived, and your level is very poor as a sin

[Raspberry]

3 hours ago, RevienT4CulOs said:

Jajaja, Raspberry sins are not macro, as I told you a long time ago, you will always live deceived, and your level is very poor as a sin

This is not the place but you re the one who is self deceiving. I am very aware of what a sin can capable of. You re just making yourself fool with this kind of defences. You re a labeled cheater and everyone knows what you re doing. You can leave now let the big brothers talk. Kapish 

[RevienT4CulOs]

'm going to create a pk and vs video to open your eyes and close your mouth, rogue trash, obviously you won't be in this video because only the best on the server will be there.

[Raspberry]

1 hour ago, RevienT4CulOs said:

'm going to create a pk and vs video to open your eyes and close your mouth, rogue trash, obviously you won't be in this video because only the best on the server will be there.

c'mon I am waiting your video son, stop that trash player nonsense. Your PvP video will be like cheater vs cardinal farmers  put your insta tp mage on that video aswell and play with yourself at nights. Bcs you only can play with it  let us do the real work if you get what i mean. Cya 

[RevienT4CulOs]

Someday you could do this https://ibb.co/nsnvhJF, but I don't know if I can do you a favor so you can learn to play correctly, because you continue with your stupid things as a child.

[Raspberry]

35 minutes ago, RevienT4CulOs said:

Someday you could do this https://ibb.co/nsnvhJF, but I don't know if I can do you a favor so you can learn to play correctly, because you continue with your stupid things as a child.

what a valid way to prove your case  you re total disgrace  please stop it i am gonna die you donkey   . Let me tell you one by one because as i see you have a intellection problem; Y O U  A R E  A  L A B E L E D  C H E A T E R. Btw I won too many vs against him on last server so this is not a thing for me. Realy you have to stop talking, everyone laughing at you.

[RevienT4CulOs]

Well, do you think that no one can improve? Years ago I beat this player and I beat him too easily but this time for me he plays much better than you

[OsmanAmca]

I believe that instead of reducing the anti-defense capabilities of helmets and other equipment, a more effective approach could be to make these items rarer drops, akin to the drop rates of CS Vouchers or IN IBs. This adjustment has the potential to elevate the significance of these items within the game over the long term. Furthermore, there is room for updates that integrate anti-defense armors as obligatory components of new armors or existing wings. Consequently, this strategy could progressively reduce the availability of current anti-defense armors in the market, ultimately enhancing gameplay until the next launch.

Turning our attention to the matter of Sin damages and the concerns surrounding the diminishing value of Assassins, I hold some reservations, with a few exceptions. It's essential to acknowledge that in the initial stages of a server, Assassins can present a substantial challenge for many players. However, as time advances and players form more structured parties featuring Warriors, Priests, and superior gear, Assassins may encounter difficulties when confronting these well-organized groups. This pattern has been observed across numerous PK servers.

Nonetheless, it is pivotal to recognize that Assassins truly excel in scenarios where they can engage in solo combat, execute ambushes against enemies, or take on smaller groups of opponents. Their character and abilities are not tailored for direct confrontations with organized melee parties. It is imperative to grasp the unique role that Assassins assume in the game, which revolves around elements of stealth, assassination, and hit-and-run tactics.

Therefore, while it might be reasonable to explore minor improvements in damage for Assassins, it is imperative to steer clear of outright removal or substantial nerfs of items or abilities. Instead, a more balanced approach could involve an emphasis on enhancing their distinctive strengths and gameplay style. However, there may be room for additional enhancements from the original KO skills of Assassins that could prove beneficial and justifiable.

Finally, concerning Phoenix wings, if there exists a method to ensure equitable effectiveness for the wing across all classes, it should be updated in a reasonable and judicious manner.

Edited October 10, 2023 by OsmanAmca

[Daggeron]

i agree paper anti def armors should be 10 instead of 20. average paper class has 20+10+5+5= 40 dd with basic items

[nikos32]

either we do remove the weapon defense from all wings and replace them with STR, DEX, INT and MP bonuses or cap the weapon defense a character can have up to 50 or something.

[MrCalaMiTY]

6 minutes ago, nikos32 said:

either we do remove the weapon defense from all wings and replace them with STR, DEX, INT and MP bonuses or cap the weapon defense a character can have up to 50 or something.

Capping defense weapon a character can accumulate can affect the value of certain items( items whose increase server activity by farming/fighting for em), if those are the only 2 options you consider as viable i would go for the first one no doubt.

[AztecGoldHero]

15 hours ago, nikos32 said:

either we do remove the weapon defense from all wings and replace them with STR, DEX, INT and MP bonuses or cap the weapon defense a character can have up to 50 or something.

Remove weapon defense from all wings is definetly best option! And even then mages have advantage cuz of the normal def + poision ressistance but lets try it out i would say  

 

for sure cuz of this wings melees hit eachother 500 and pk becomes so bad cuz of it @nikos32

Edited October 11, 2023 by AztecGoldHero

[Marques]

Before going further changes, I would suggest decreasing the damages of the mage class a bit. Considering the wings have some defense ability for all weapons, you might add some defense for the mage skills? (I do not know how to code this but I mean is like an additional defense for Nova and Meteor)
Because removing defense abilities from the wings would be a fundamental change. Also, that would be a that something prevents newcomers' ability to survive

[nikos32]

3 minutes ago, Marques said:

I would suggest decreasing the damages of the mage class a bit

are you referring to the staff skills? I have the impression that the magic skills are ok now, just a few minutes ago I had a discussion with TheBiatch and was told that the pvp is quite balanced now and that party can survive against 1 mage pt raid

[SimplyTheBest]

16 hours ago, nikos32 said:

either we do remove the weapon defense from all wings and replace them with STR, DEX, INT and MP bonuses or cap the weapon defense a character can have up to 50 or something.

i think this is bad idea, if u do that, Rog class dies completely cuz already  the class getting high damages from meeles, the wings makes tanky little bit. Meeles damages are fine (warriors and bps), there are only two problems we got, the problems are about mages and sins,  staff damages too high (Nova damages seems fine)  and sin damages too low... you must work on it, make a solution about it..

Edited October 11, 2023 by SimplyTheBest

[AztecGoldHero]

13 minutes ago, SimplyTheBest said:

i think this is bad idea, if u do that, Rog class dies completely, meeles damages are fine (warriors and bps), there are only two problems we got, , the problems are about mages and sins,  staff damages too high (Nova damages seems fine)  and sin damages too low... you must work on it, make a solution about it..

Howcome sins gonna be weak if all anti def getting removed from the wint including dagger? and sin is most of the time the one that can hit as first on a debuff with their stealths and light feets?
 

you say warrior damage is fine can you tell me ur ingame name of ur rogue?

i play 255 str and i think warrior damages are super low. 
 

if u remove anti def it means mages getting nerfed a little and first of all its a customised item which is nowhere to be seen in any other server including officials since 2004. 

[AztecGoldHero]

43 minutes ago, Marques said:

Before going further changes, I would suggest decreasing the damages of the mage class a bit. Considering the wings have some defense ability for all weapons, you might add some defense for the mage skills? (I do not know how to code this but I mean is like an additional defense for Nova and Meteor)
Because removing defense abilities from the wings would be a fundamental change. Also, that would be a that something prevents newcomers' ability to survive

It actually helps the beginners so they don’t have to fight another 8 anti def.

and if we boost all wing stats ofc wing of pk till phoenix 3 str dex mp int should be increased