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Why should Nikos reconsider allowing trade in real-life currency?


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There are several reasons for this; (1) to attract new comers, (2) to keep the people that want to play but are too busy to invest time in the game, (3) somewhat equalize the tremendous cliff between top-geared chars and newer ones, (4) revitalize the DEAD(!) market. First and foremost, one needs approximately 1000 gbs to build somewhat a competent character, considering most of the chars that hang out in cz are top gears.

I had a few farmer chars and tried many different slots to measure their profitability. Four slots particularly have value.

--The numbers below are on average--

Hobgoblin: leaves almost 2gb in 1 hour/ char + the BUS

Booro: Leaves 2-6 gbs in 1 hour/ 2 chars = 1-3 gb in 1 hour/char (really difficult to solo it, plus you get raided often)

Egos (AOE): Very unstable because of the constant raidings. On average 1m to 3gbs in 1 hour/char.

Vice: In the past month, I've never been able to farm for a straight hour, but estimation is around 3-5 gb in 1 hour/char. 

I asked Nikos in the game why wasn't the real life trade allowed. His response was that he thought it would kill the farming aspect of the game. What has long killed the farming aspect of the server is full-geared sins that regulate who can farm and who can't. There's already no more farming for people who aren't willing to stay up late and wait for cz to empty and try and try and try with a psychopathic stubbornness. So, those numbers you see above are maximal profits with no interruptions from top-geared sins that won't attack you anyway unless your hp is low due to mob hitting you. The farming is part of the game, and it never ends for people that don't have more important priorities in real life than gearing up in the game. But as far as average new comers are concerned (and there aren't whole lot of them), they can't just put 500 hours into hobgoblin farm, or 333 hours into ego farming, assuming they will never be interrupted by NP-hungry daggers. And there's absolutely no place to farm other than cz - anyone that has anything to say against that, please don't bother.

Food for thought is why are there number of people joining everyday, and very rarely they stick around for more than a week? Do we really want to grow the server's population? Or do we want ~30 chars in cz taking turns raiding other nation's town, killing all the bosses getting even stronger while the noobs remain noobs. For example, how likely does it seem for beginners to go in the bowl and do gem farming, since there's either two parties of orcs or humans. 

Majority of the people that play in this server do have jobs and real life priorities. Such people can't be farming all day long to achieve anything of any significance. 

My suggestion is that you allow real life trade to be a thing, and help revitalize the population of competent chars. Law of entropy dictates that disorder is inevitable. You're losing players each day. Server is going to die whatever you do about it, but this might help you delay it a bit.

Regards,

Fingolf1n

Edited by Fingolf1n
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3 hours ago, Fingolf1n said:

There are several reasons for this; (1) to attract new comers, (2) to keep the people that want to play but are too busy to invest time in the game, (3) somewhat equalize the tremendous cliff between top-geared chars and newer ones, (4) revitalize the DEAD(!) market. First and foremost, one needs approximately 1000 gbs to build somewhat a competent character, considering most of the chars that hang out in cz are top gears.

I had a few farmer chars and tried many different slots to measure their profitability. Four slots particularly have value.

--The numbers below are on average--

Hobgoblin: leaves almost 2gb in 1 hour/ char + the BUS

Booro: Leaves 2-6 gbs in 1 hour/ 2 chars = 1-3 gb in 1 hour/char (really difficult to solo it, plus you get raided often)

Egos (AOE): Very unstable because of the constant raidings. On average 1m to 3gbs in 1 hour/char.

Vice: In the past month, I've never been able to farm for a straight hour, but estimation is around 3-5 gb in 1 hour/char. 

I asked Nikos in the game why wasn't the real life trade allowed. His response was that he thought it would kill the farming aspect of the game. What has long killed the farming aspect of the server is full-geared sins that regulate who can farm and who can't. There's already no more farming for people who aren't willing to stay up late and wait for cz to empty and try and try and try with a psychopathic stubbornness. So, those numbers you see above are maximal profits with no interruptions from top-geared sins that won't attack you anyway unless your hp is low due to mob hitting you. The farming is part of the game, and it never ends for people that don't have more important priorities in real life than gearing up in the game. But as far as average new comers are concerned (and there aren't whole lot of them), they can't just put 500 hours into hobgoblin farm, or 333 hours into ego farming, assuming they will never be interrupted by NP-hungry daggers. And there's absolutely no place to farm other than cz - anyone that has anything to say against that, please don't bother.

Food for thought is why are there number of people joining everyday, and very rarely they stick around for more than a week? Do we really want to grow the server's population? Or do we want ~30 chars in cz taking turns raiding other nation's town, killing all the bosses getting even stronger while the noobs remain noobs. For example, how likely does it seem for beginners to go in the bowl and do gem farming, since there's either two parties of orcs or humans. 

Majority of the people that play in this server do have jobs and real life priorities. Such people can't be farming all day long to achieve anything of any significance. 

My suggestion is that you allow real life trade to be a thing, and help revitalize the population of competent chars. Law of entropy dictates that disorder is inevitable. You're losing players each day. Server is going to die whatever you do about it, but this might help you delay it a bit.

Regards,

Fingolf1n

Great and very interesting topic! well done

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really good topic. congratulations. limiting farm slots to cz is a challenge for solo players .there are idiots who only enter the game to kill the farmer.

and bosses have no value.  If at least +6 high class items are added to the boxes, they start to gain value.

Fragment and gem drops can rise

 

Edited by ggwp
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@elProfessor - thank you! I hope it will be taken seriously by the management.

@ggwp - thank you very much! I've been killed many times by top chars when I was leveling at beast (40 level pri). Legally, I have no right to be mad, because it is cz. Apparently those fully-geared fellows need us for their daily NP gains. I cannot even partially blame them, because it is cz after all. So, go figure. 

@Tuke - and gems are impossible to farm for solo farmers. A party is needed with lupin and heals. And overwhelming population of newcomers are solo players with rather silly items. It's almost like "screw newcomers!".  You're a crazy warrior player, btw.

@nikos32 - I know how to abuse the loopholes as well, like many other players, I can "donate" someone money and be "donated" items. You wouldn't be able to implement a means of punishment for it. However, I don't want to. Why should we sneak through back doors for such matter? I know you want to keep this server alive as much as any serious player. Only reason I am criticizing the system is because I take your work and the server seriously- no other reason.

Edited by Fingolf1n
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Real life money trading would actually make it worse for new comers... not all of them but many.  Me for example if i would have seen Pay2Win system like this its a huge turn off and I'd never touch such server and I think many new players would agree.... I do have a full time job etc.. yet I can farm a little bit everyday.

Now to the farming issue - yes it is only limited to CZ and really annoying not only sins patrol farming spots and I say this from horrible experience, even had 0 NP like 4 times nearly ragequit 2 times. Btw seen at least 3 players that quit server after getting ganked all the time on farming spots in my 5week playtime here.

Luff/EMC,Eslant have no farm spots for solo players.. Most players have insane gear and if they farm mostly duo with someone.. but what about the solo newbs who struggle to get some fragments/gems or even damn BuSes from goblins while getting killed constantly.

Currently server is divided to nearly/fully geared players and not geared and most of these players don't stick long and the only way to actually get geared and be wanted in parties is play INT priest and nothing else, if you join with any other class and no gear or beginner gear it will be a miracle trust me:)  

This is just my experience of 5 week playtime in this time I did a test: Warrior 3 valks +6  2 red chitins +7 and HB+7 skele belt+0 and FT neck+1 wings of god, dual Hero's valor +1 and dual mino +0 ....Guess what its not even close to being competitive you still get deleted while doing 500damage tops unless someone debuffs them.

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21 hours ago, Fingolf1n said:

There are several reasons for this; (1) to attract new comers, (2) to keep the people that want to play but are too busy to invest time in the game, (3) somewhat equalize the tremendous cliff between top-geared chars and newer ones, (4) revitalize the DEAD(!) market. First and foremost, one needs approximately 1000 gbs to build somewhat a competent character, considering most of the chars that hang out in cz are top gears.

I had a few farmer chars and tried many different slots to measure their profitability. Four slots particularly have value.

--The numbers below are on average--

Hobgoblin: leaves almost 2gb in 1 hour/ char + the BUS

Booro: Leaves 2-6 gbs in 1 hour/ 2 chars = 1-3 gb in 1 hour/char (really difficult to solo it, plus you get raided often)

Egos (AOE): Very unstable because of the constant raidings. On average 1m to 3gbs in 1 hour/char.

Vice: In the past month, I've never been able to farm for a straight hour, but estimation is around 3-5 gb in 1 hour/char. 

I asked Nikos in the game why wasn't the real life trade allowed. His response was that he thought it would kill the farming aspect of the game. What has long killed the farming aspect of the server is full-geared sins that regulate who can farm and who can't. There's already no more farming for people who aren't willing to stay up late and wait for cz to empty and try and try and try with a psychopathic stubbornness. So, those numbers you see above are maximal profits with no interruptions from top-geared sins that won't attack you anyway unless your hp is low due to mob hitting you. The farming is part of the game, and it never ends for people that don't have more important priorities in real life than gearing up in the game. But as far as average new comers are concerned (and there aren't whole lot of them), they can't just put 500 hours into hobgoblin farm, or 333 hours into ego farming, assuming they will never be interrupted by NP-hungry daggers. And there's absolutely no place to farm other than cz - anyone that has anything to say against that, please don't bother.

Food for thought is why are there number of people joining everyday, and very rarely they stick around for more than a week? Do we really want to grow the server's population? Or do we want ~30 chars in cz taking turns raiding other nation's town, killing all the bosses getting even stronger while the noobs remain noobs. For example, how likely does it seem for beginners to go in the bowl and do gem farming, since there's either two parties of orcs or humans. 

Majority of the people that play in this server do have jobs and real life priorities. Such people can't be farming all day long to achieve anything of any significance. 

My suggestion is that you allow real life trade to be a thing, and help revitalize the population of competent chars. Law of entropy dictates that disorder is inevitable. You're losing players each day. Server is going to die whatever you do about it, but this might help you delay it a bit.

Regards,

Fingolf1n

Well spoken! 100% agree with you.

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27 minutes ago, AlextazY said:

Real life money trading would actually make it worse for new comers... not all of them but many.  Me for example if i would have seen Pay2Win system like this its a huge turn off and I'd never touch such server and I think many new players would agree.... I do have a full time job etc.. yet I can farm a little bit everyday.

Now to the farming issue - yes it is only limited to CZ and really annoying not only sins patrol farming spots and I say this from horrible experience, even had 0 NP like 4 times nearly ragequit 2 times. Btw seen at least 3 players that quit server after getting ganked all the time on farming spots in my 5week playtime here.

Luff/EMC,Eslant have no farm spots for solo players.. Most players have insane gear and if they farm mostly duo with someone.. but what about the solo newbs who struggle to get some fragments/gems or even damn BuSes from goblins while getting killed constantly.

Currently server is divided to nearly/fully geared players and not geared and most of these players don't stick long and the only way to actually get geared and be wanted in parties is play INT priest and nothing else, if you join with any other class and no gear or beginner gear it will be a miracle trust me:)  

This is just my experience of 5 week playtime in this time I did a test: Warrior 3 valks +6  2 red chitins +7 and HB+7 skele belt+0 and FT neck+1 wings of god, dual Hero's valor +1 and dual mino +0 ....Guess what its not even close to being competitive you still get deleted while doing 500damage tops unless someone debuffs them.

@AlextazY - thank you for your comment! I know what you mean about pay-to-win systems. One doesn't need to look further to see it. USko is very much a pay-to-win system. That's what makes it repulsive for players like you and I. However, rest of your comments almost seem to agree with my main suggestion! :P. You said you farmed for about 5 weeks to get what you now have. Impressive with a full-time job! On the other hand, by the time you are competitive with the current top chars, they'll be some distances ahead of you anyway. After a certain point, the growth becomes exponential and reaching them gets more and more difficult. 

Problem is not the attraction of newbies, but rather keeping them in the server. One of the main reasons for lack of sticking around is because they're almost always solo players. What chance does a solo player have, now that the Felankor is out, and ROF is the new BDW ring. Even the crappy players can remain as crappy players. As long as they two-shot you due to gear difference, it doesn't make any difference how talented they are. My suggestion isn't to pay a fortune to win, and heck, if someone is willing to do that, so be it. I simply suggest that getting at least somewhat competitive shouldn't take the new comers half a year of temporal investment with no certainty of server's integrity. It's a private server after all, and it's losing player, not gaining. 

Another thing is that this allowance of the trade would improve the market, and the circulation of items through the players. Let's face it. Market is dead. You can wait for days, a week, perhaps more to sell something, assuming you're not being KSed by other merchants. Giving people monetary motivation to upgrade and sell items would bring dynamism to the market as well. Merchant is a HUGE part of this game as well, and it shouldn't be neglected. My suggestion aims to improve the market, not destroy it.

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Tbh, man, i'm not so sure if that would be a good idea, at least for newcomers. I tend to agree with @AlextazY, specially because of the players' division of fully gear and those who aren't that much. If you fall in the second case, unless you're an int priest (my case), nobody will even look at you at cz, should you have the beginner gear (unless people from the opposite nation, as they will love the easy NP :P).

I kinda left the server because of this (and i've barely been able to play anything, so no gear improvement for me, which is, ofc, my fault as well). Some people are eager to pay to get better and stuff, but some aren't.

IMHO, i think changing luff/emc drops would work as much as you're proposing, but with a lower price, since, should i come back to play, at least i can farm on my own without worrying about getting raided in CZ by a whole opposite nation party (it is annoying, but, heck, it's all part of the game.).

But that's just an opinion of someone who barely logs anymore, but i felt like sharing my thoughts about it.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND, i don't see why both couldn't be made, though. I just fear that real currency purchases would unbalance things even more than they are balanced, even being true that people will get good gear faster. That would work if most people were eager to invest real money on it, which, tbh, i hardly think that's the case.

Edited by HealingSpirit
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9 hours ago, Fingolf1n said:

@AlextazY - thank you for your comment! I know what you mean about pay-to-win systems. One doesn't need to look further to see it. USko is very much a pay-to-win system. That's what makes it repulsive for players like you and I. However, rest of your comments almost seem to agree with my main suggestion! :P. You said you farmed for about 5 weeks to get what you now have. Impressive with a full-time job! On the other hand, by the time you are competitive with the current top chars, they'll be some distances ahead of you anyway. After a certain point, the growth becomes exponential and reaching them gets more and more difficult. 

Problem is not the attraction of newbies, but rather keeping them in the server. One of the main reasons for lack of sticking around is because they're almost always solo players. What chance does a solo player have, now that the Felankor is out, and ROF is the new BDW ring. Even the crappy players can remain as crappy players. As long as they two-shot you due to gear difference, it doesn't make any difference how talented they are. My suggestion isn't to pay a fortune to win, and heck, if someone is willing to do that, so be it. I simply suggest that getting at least somewhat competitive shouldn't take the new comers half a year of temporal investment with no certainty of server's integrity. It's a private server after all, and it's losing player, not gaining. 

Another thing is that this allowance of the trade would improve the market, and the circulation of items through the players. Let's face it. Market is dead. You can wait for days, a week, perhaps more to sell something, assuming you're not being KSed by other merchants. Giving people monetary motivation to upgrade and sell items would bring dynamism to the market as well. Merchant is a HUGE part of this game as well, and it shouldn't be neglected. My suggestion aims to improve the market, not destroy it.

Agree but another point is market will completely move to real life currency... gold bars will be useless since everyone will want to sell and make few extra $... Also there would be at least 2/5 scam sales.

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The only way this could work is if Nikos made a company like KLASGAME and became the middle man. Player A could put item for sell on his website for X amount of money. Player B request to purchase item for X amount of money. The item is held by 3rd party website and the transcation is completed successfully. Of course this brings more responsibilities for Nikos.

Goldbars wouldn't be useless and the market would not move to real life currency completely. Players will always find a way to babashop. They still do it now on his server.

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43 minutes ago, mindkrash said:

The only way this could work is if Nikos made a company like KLASGAME and became the middle man. Player A could put item for sell on his website for X amount of money. Player B request to purchase item for X amount of money. The item is held by 3rd party website and the transcation is completed successfully. Of course this brings more responsibilities for Nikos.

Goldbars wouldn't be useless and the market would not move to real life currency completely. Players will always find a way to babashop. They still do it now on his server.

Indeed people still babashop(I love the term), whether it's allowed or not. There are ways to do it, and it's not that hard. Only concern would be the trust between the seller and the buyer. What you suggest would bring more safety to such trade. However, " I don't care what you guys do with your items. Do it at your own risk" approach would probably be more realistic, considering all the hassle Nikos would have to go through had he decided to be the middle man.

13 hours ago, AlextazY said:

Agree but another point is market will completely move to real life currency... gold bars will be useless since everyone will want to sell and make few extra $... Also there would be at least 2/5 scam sales.

If anything it would encourage more people to farm GBs and items. It'd bring more life to CZ, along with opportunities and drawbacks of course. All and all, this is still going to be a minor population of the server who babashops, while most other players 1)don't need it, 2) is going to keep farming. What does a guy with full items have to babashop anyway? It's mostly for noobies that want to be able to hold their own in CZ.

 

@HealingSpirit Thanks for your comment, man! Always good to get some feedback from you. I noticed that your initial statement disagrees with my suggestion while your points seem to support it! I thought it would be especially good for newcomers, why would @ImJefferson need to shop, for example? Dude is fully-geared and mostly go after farming chars that wear beginner gears. He's more than qualified to kill his preference of preys anyway. This shopping would give newcomers a chance and reason to stay. 

 

PS: Thanks everyone. Opposing ideas are always helpful to further improve the suggested idea, or in some cases, refute it. I'm not yet convinced to back up just yet, however! Also, there's a very rigid reality - it's a private server, and many people can't trust its future integrity. For now, it's doing well, but in three months, it may lose majority of its players. Meanwhile, you (hard-working farmer brothers) will have farmed for three months, intensively, only to play alone and chase bosses in an empty bowl. Let's hope it won't come to that, of course. It's an exceptional server, one of the best and most long-lasting ones. @nikos32Whatever your decision will be, it won't change the fact that you do a great job at creating and maintaining servers!

Regards!

Edited by Fingolf1n
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